Complete Beginners guide to the GP14 rigging

GP14 Sailing Forums Forum Complete Beginners guide to the GP14 rigging

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  warsashod 3 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #14397

    cookie
    Participant

    Hi,

    Can anyone suggest a book that will detail the rigging and name all the parts, possibly with photos, for a MK1 GP14  that a complete novice can follow?

    I have just bought a used MK1 GP14 with GRP Hull and have no idea  how to rig it from scratch. In fact I have never even sailed a GP14.  My total sailing experience amounts to the RYA level 2, which I did in 2001 and 2 seasons of laser sailing.  I’ve also not sailed for 7 years!

    Apart from the obvious… take a course and join a club, which I have done and I’m waiting for the next available RYA level 3 to be run at Glossop Sailing Club, I would really like to get my hands on a good book that would show me the ropes (pun intended)… Can anyone advise on a suitable book for a complete novice that would show me how to rig the GP14 from scratch. Also It would be really helpful if there were a detailed diagram with all the parts labelled to aid me in identifying parts detailed in any explanation.

    Thanks for any help and advice

    Dave

    PS

    The document BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO RIGGING THE GP14 I’m afraid isn’t basic enough and assumes a previously rigged boat

    eg

    1) Before fitting the mast, ensure that all rope ends are present (not lost in mast!) and are not tangled. This is best done with mast vertical.

    Yes they are lost in the mast unfortunately this is how it came to me and I would know how many shrouds or sheets or leads should be coming from the mast.

    2) Stand mast vertical beside boat and lift into boat and ensure its base is correctly slotted in.

    3) Lean mast aft and fit each shroud in turn in the marked holes (yes you did mark them at the end of last season didn’t you?) 4) Return mast to vertical and check that mast

    No They aren’t marked. I didn’t have the boat last season!

     

  • #14399

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    There are probably a number of generic books,  but I am not aware of any class specific ones.

    However I suspect that it might help to make contact in person.   I am thinking of initially a telephone discussion,  more than one if it helps;   but if the boat is at Glossop Sailing Club you are not too far away for us to meet,  if we can arrange a mutually convenient occasion.    Please contact me,  via the Association,  so that we can set up contact details.

     

    Oliver

  • #14400

    warsashod
    Participant

    Hello Dave,

     

     

    I found this to be a great problem – all the guidance is geared towards racing/high end boats. Other than Oliver, who has been very helpful but has a life to lead.

     

    We who come in at the bottom with our unloved middle-aged GPs have to figure it out.  There only so much you can learn at a club if there are no GPs there.  I got some help from a seasoned Wayfarer sailor, but some things are just so different (like routing the headsail sheets & position of sheet travellers…)

     

     

    It might help the GP14 Class Association draw members in/retain them if there was a bit more guidance for our sort, who buy a cheap GP14 by varying degrees of luck/randomness. The link below is an example of what would help.

     

    In the absence of anything better, you may well find  useful info on Wayfarer websites, including the US Wayfarer one which has more useful info than the UK one. Also worth a look for are Enterprise & Lark CA’s. I found a useful article (but can’t now find it…) from a sailing club website with an article on Larks.

    http://www.uswayfarer.org/index.php/technical/wayfarer-technical</div&gt;

     

    If I find the other article I’ll post a link.

    Regards

    Jonathan

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  warsashod. Reason: Readability. The page somehow made the HTML visible on submission
  • #14418

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Grovelling apologies,  my post a few minutes ago was in reply to the wrong topic!

    Hope I have deleted it successfully;  and I will now post it again to the correct topic.

     

    Oliver

  • #14438

    Chris Hearn
    Keymaster

    Hi Dave,

    There are good clubs nearby to Glossop and I am sure people there would be happy to assist you. I sail at Budworth SC which is not far, so if you would like to visit Budworth then I would be happy to help! Contact me via the association office if this is of interest.

    Budworth SC also have an Open Day on May 5th – I may be pretty busy but I am sure myself or another GP14 sailor can talk you through the rigging – it can be a bit daunting but help is available!

    Chris

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Chris Hearn.
  • #14441

    Bob Bohme
    Participant

    Hi Dave, and welcome. I too have just got a Mk1 (Grp) and am trying to get to know her. After forty odd years of offshore sailing I am hoping to do some cruising in her. I am just down the road in Buxton and have just joined Combs sailing club, hopefully to gain some knowledge.

    Bob

  • #14482

    cookie
    Participant

    Hi All,

    Thanks for all your replies… I know it’s been a while in replying but I thought I’d wait till I had something to say…

    Thanks Oliver for a very quick response and thanks for your generous offer of making contact.  It’s a pity, and I’m a bit surprised that there aren’t any class specific books… maybe this is an opening for someone to write one?  I’d buy it! I have a the book by Dick Tillman ‘The Complete Book of Laser Sailing’ from when I sailed lasers. There should be one for the GP14, it’s been around long enough and it’s a great boat!  As far as you offer of help is concerned, I want to give things ago myself first and if I can’t figure it out, which with some guidance from one or two of the guys at the club I’m sure I will, I’ll be sure to take you up on you generous offer.

    Thanks to Chris for mentioning Budsworth. Chris, I’ve since checked it out and it looks like a fantastic club. I would love to sail on it at some time in the future.

    I’ve not been idle, and before I take anyone up on there very kind offers of help, I thought I would get myself into shape and try things out myself first. If there had been a book to guide me that would have been perfect but no matter… for now!

    Over the weekend I went to Carsington water and put myself on a refresher course, sailing a Laser Bahia for 2 hours. First time on the water in 8 years and I was surprised how much I remembered. I know it’s rigged differently than my GP14 but it got me back on the water and helped no end with my confidence.

    Now thats out of the way I intend to go to GSC this Wed night to have a go at rigging her with the goal of getting out on the water on Sunday when we have safety boat cover. I intend to go out on my own with main only so that I don’t have to worry about getting any crew wet when I capsize! (hopefully not) My thoughts here are that I can practice tacking and gybing on my own without having to worry about the jib sheet.

    I know she wont sail upwind to well but that’s not the point of the exercise. I just want to get used to helming my boat before subjecting anyone else to my novice seamanship! ;0)

    I’ll update this thread next week when I can tell you how I got on and maybe post some photos of my rigging.

    Thanks and best regards all

    Dave

  • #14487

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Dave,

    Well done with your refresher course;   congratulations on how much you remembered,  and I am glad that it boosted your confidence.

    I concur with your plan to sail her under main alone on this first occasion,  for the reasons you indicate.   It is sensible also to limit yourself to no more than moderate wind strengths until you have built up experience and confidence.

    Another useful exercise for you,  if you have a genoa,  might on another occasion be to try sailing her under genoa alone.    A GP14 will sail effectively under genoa alone,  on any point of sailing,  including to windward.   Occasionally it is useful to be able to do so,  and getting to know how she handles and what to expect is all part of your growing knowledge of the boat.

     

    Oliver

  • #14521

    Ann Penny
    Participant

    Hi Dave

    Welcome to GP14 sailing and being a member of the Class Association. We are a friendly bunch of sailors, with people of all levels of sailing ability. I am still learning new things about my GP14, but people are always willing to help so don’t worry about how often you need to ask.

    Well done on completing your course and to many years of fun on the water. If you get the chance to get to an event do please say ‘Hello’.

    Best wishes

    Ann Penny (President)

  • #14522

    Ann Penny
    Participant

    Hi Bob

    Look out for our cruising events, Bassenthwaite, Ullswater and Loch Lomond are planned for this year. There will be lots of helpful advice before and at the event.

    Here’s to new adventures.

    Ann 🙂

     

     

     

     

  • #14524

    Chris Hearn
    Keymaster

    Hi, I found this document buried in our website  https://www.gp14.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Rigging_guide-1.pdf which should help you!

  • #14525

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I run the GP14 Owners Online Community.  and Chris’s document (above) reminds me that several years ago I compiled a photo album of the various rigging systems that have been used on GP14s over the years,  and I put it on that site.    It is now on our archive site at https://gp14building.wordpress.com/about/photos/gp14-rigging-systems/ and you may find it helpful.

    I am not certain whether you can get straight into that,  or whether you will need to “join” the Online Community first,  but I would encourage you to consider doing that anyway.   The Online Community and the Class Association maintain warm reciprocal relations,  and each support the other;   and as a purely online operation it is free.   https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GP14_Community/info

    This may be helpful to you.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
  • #14530

    warsashod
    Participant

    Chris,

    Whilst that document has some value to this kind of situation, it is pretty limited.

    And Oliver’s detailed photos, whilst being helpful to an extent, mostly apply to wooden boats (eg turning blocks, line routing & mast exit slots)

    My boat and very probably, Cookie’s, doesn’t even have a jib tensioning system, just the halyard. Things like this really dampen one’s enthusiasm as there is no obvious way forward.

    There must be hundreds if not thousands of virtually “immortal” Bourne et al GRP boats out there that are in this “no man’s land” of not being wooden classics/sought after or competitive newer modern ones.

    As this is a route into the class, I feel that this is a great pity and a lost opportunity.  I can’t help but think that the average “beginner” will have one of these boats.  If you’re buying a boat with centre main, cascading kicker & a million to one jib tensioner, you’re probably not a beginner.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
  • #14532

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The boat as originally designed had indeed no jib tensioning system,  other than the halliard.   That was entirely normal for sailing dinghies generally at that time.

    The usual way to obtain adequate tension on the jib luff was then to use one (or more) of three techniques:

    1. Use traditional horn cleats to secure the halliard,  and “sweat on” the halliard when making it off.   This entails taking a half turn round the cleat,  to provide some friction;   then pull hard on the tail of the halliard (after it leaves the cleat) while simultaneously pulling the halliard between the cleat and the mast,  in a direction at right-angles.      This will pull another half-inch or so through the sheaves.    Then very quickly release the perpendicular pull,  and pull the end of the halliard that further half inch round the cleat,  relying on the friction in the sheaves to help prevent the newly gained extra half inch from running back into the mast.   That is why initially you take no more than one turn,  and usually no more than a single half turn,  round the cleat.     Naturally enough there is a limit to how many times you can surge a little more tension into the halliard;   it is a law of diminishing returns.   But it is remarkable how much more tension this technique can generate,  as compared with simply a straight pull and then making off to the cleat.   Although the attached photo is for a much larger boat  –  it shows my godson back in the eighties hoisting sail on my then yacht  –  the technique is the same;  in the photo he is just about to apply the perpendicular pull,  while still maintaining tension on the tail of the halliard.
    2. The crew pulls the mast forward by means of the forestay while the helmsman makes off the halliard to the cleat.   This can be done either by pulling the forestay (at a convenient height) horizontally forwards,  or by using two hands (or a home-made wooden tool) to put an S-bend into the forestay.   In either case,  this can only be done while the crew is ashore,  which implies that either the boat also is ashore or she is moored stem-on to a jetty,  and close enough for the crew to be standing on the jetty.
    3. If you are doing this while afloat,   one person makes off the halliard to the cleat while the other person pushes the mast forwards (at a point as high as can reasonably be managed).   The use of this method should be restricted to occasions when you are afloat,  since it requires two people to both be inside the boat,  which is not recommended when she is ashore.

    However there are a number of very simple and cheap retro-fits available which will enable you to achieve higher tensions;   a Highfield lever,  or a toothed rack (perhaps on the centreboard case) perpendicular to the halliard (between the exit from the mast and the cleat),  or even a simple block and tackle.   You may even be able to pick up the kit second-hand,  either at a Boat Jumble or via eBay or otherwise.   Even if your boat does not currently have any of these systems it is entirely open to you to fit one if you so wish;    as a beginner you will probably not yet see the need to do so,  but once you gain more experience you will very probably wish to do it.

    However for a seriously early vintage boat you may decide that historical authenticity is paramount,  in which case you are left with no tensioning aids.    For my 1951 vintage boats historical authenticity is indeed paramount,  and although I have not yet got round to it I intend to make up a home-made wooden “spanner” to temporarily put an S-bend into the forestay to assist with getting tension on the halliard while making it off to the cleat.

    Hope these ideas help.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
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  • #14566

    cookie
    Participant

    Hi Oliver,

    I took the GP14 out solo this Sunday and had a fantastic time.  It was great to have her on the water and no capsize!  I was very fortunate that I met a chap called Tim who seemed to know nearly everything about the GP14.  He pointed out the rigging and points of improvement, things to watch out for and knacks for getting tensions on the foresail.

    Your guides make much more sense to me now that I have had the various parts of the rigging pointed out to me and that I have finally successfully rigged her.  Nothing quite like actually doing it!

    Your last post is very informative and concurs with the advice and training I received over the weekend.  My boat also has rope halyard for both main and foresail as discussed in you post.  The method of pulling on the fore-stay works very well.  It also has a toothed rack for putting extra tension on the foresail halyard although we noticed that the previous owner had rigged the main and foresail halyards to come out on the incorrect side of the mast. I just re-routed them at the bottom just above the spinnaker down-haul.

    Another tip I received was not to hook the jib onto the fore-stay (if you happen to have sails this old) . This also allows for more tension to be applied.

    The boat also has either towing or mooring cleats on the bow deck each side.  These rely have to go as the jib sheet gets caught in them nearly every time, just as my new friend Tim said they would. Which sailing solo made for a few exiting moments :0)

    Still not sure about how much tension to place on the shrouds.  I did pull the mast back out of the gate a touch so that I could get them connected a notch further down on the track before pushing the mast forward and closing the gate and tightening up the for stay.

    I also noticed the block of wood the bottom of the mast fits into.  It looks like it will need replacing.  I was also advised to place chocks of wood in it to stop the mast moving in its seat.

    Looks like I’m getting there at last.

    Thanks to Chris for prompting Oliver’s last post.

    Dave

     

     

     

     

  • #14569

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Dave,

    Excellent news.

    Congratulations,  and enjoy!

     

    Oliver

  • #14578

    steve13003
    Participant

    Dave,

    when you chock the mast use thin pieces of wood on either side to keep it central and then move the mast as far back in the mast step as is possible towards the stern and the fill the space kin front of the mast to keep it in place.

    As for how much tension as much as you dare,  racers will measure this with a shroud tension gauge but unless you can borrow one they are expensive toys,  racers will apply about 400lbs tension using multi purchase systems it’s wire halyards,  you won’t get anywhere near that with a rope halyard so just pull as hard as you can.

    Steve

  • #14582

    warsashod
    Participant

    Thanks for this info. A lot of good stuff.

     

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