Buying a boat. Will it fit in my garage ?

GP14 Sailing Forums Forum Buying a boat. Will it fit in my garage ?

This topic contains 31 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Oliver Shaw 3 weeks, 4 days ago.

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  • #18148

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Hello everyone

    I am a new dinghy sailor and am seriously thinking about buying a GP 14 for cruising/learning/pleasure.

    I am a handy sort so would undoubtedly buy a boat which needed some tinkering to get it up to scratch and have access to a dry garage measuring 4.8 m X 2.1 m

    I need a Combi trailer to transport the boat to and fro and wondered if I could get it all to fit in the above garaging space?

    Also is it possible to obtain a 2 part mast as I realise that would probably not squeeze in there ?

    Thanks in advance..

     

     

  • #18149

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Good question!

    I think the boat will fit in your garage on a combi-trailer,  but before being certain I need to check one dimension,  which I may be able to check this afternoon.

    My garage is a little larger than yours,  but it is partly used for storage.   However the internal length,  excluding storage shelving at the far end,  is 4.8 m,  and I can just get my GP14s in without having to put the far end of the boat underneath the shelving.   However it is a trifle tight,  and combi-trailers do differ between different designs,  so when looking at any particular boat for sale it would be sensible for you to actually measure her total length when on the trailer.   It is also worth mentioning that if your garage has the popular up-and-over type of door the arc through which it swings takes a little out of the usable internal length for heights above mid-height;   it is possible to have a situation where the boat will fit inside the garage,  but you may then be unable to close the door.

    Another possible option,  depending on your circumstances,  may be to put the boat in the garage on her launching trolley only,  and store the road base of the combi-unit elsewhere;   typically this will be slightly shorter and slightly narrower than when she is on the road base.

    The width is a bit more of an issue.   My garage door aperture is 2.2 m wide,    and the usable width of the garage itself is a little more than that.    I think there is more than 10 cm clearance as the boats go through the door,  but I will measure up as soon as I can,  and get back to you.   However,  again this is a dimension on which different combi-trailers may differ slightly,  so when viewing any particular boat with a view to possible purchase I would suggest that you actually measure the width.

    Your suggestion of a two-part mast would of course take the boat out of class;  but if it solves a particular issue for you and you are not racing that would not greatly matter.   However if you dispose of the original mast that might make the boat more difficult to sell on later;    while if you find somewhere to store the standard mast you have already solved the problem anyway  …   …

    That apart,  I am not aware of any two-part masts as such,  and I would be very cautious about the structural strength of such an arrangement.   A better solution along those lines might be to re-rig the boat with a sliding gunter rig;   that can be sufficiently close to the original sail plan for you to get away with using the same sails,  but it does offer the shorter mast,  which is then extended upwards by the yard when the mainsail is set.   It is worth noting that both Heron and Mirror 10 dinghies were originally designed with sliding gunter rigs,  but later changes in their respective class rules allow them to set bermudian rigs,   and the two types of rig are very nearly equivalent once the sails are set.   This would of course entail acquiring the mast and yard for a gunter rig;   with your practical skills you might choose to make these,   or there is a reasonable chance of finding ones second-hand (which could be adapted if necessary)  –  on eBay or otherwise,  or (at a price) you could have them made  –  Collars of Oxford are one of the headline names for making wooden spars,  http://www.collars.co.uk.

    Another option is to find somewhere to store your standard GP14 mast,  and there are at least two options there.    First,  many sailing clubs  –  and I would strongly suggest that you consider joining a club anyway  –  can offer storage space for masts.    Second,  you may be able to store the mast at home,  somewhere other than inside the garage.   I myself have installed a set of ladder hooks along the inside of my perimeter fence,  which I use for that purpose.    I have occasionally known of other people who have done similarly along one wall of the house,   perhaps under the eaves.   The vast majority of GP14s have metal masts,  and these will not need weather protection while in storage.

    In the unlikely event of your buying a boat with a wooden mast,   something which nowadays is exclusively the preserve of vintage boats,  and which are very rare and highly prized within the vintage fleet,  you could consider buying a suitable length of large diameter plastic drainpipe (with end caps) to provide weather protection when the mast is in storage.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

  • #18150

    Chris Hearn
    Keymaster

    The masts are always single section, (unlike the Laser)
    I believe the mast length is about 22 feet, so I reckon would NOT fit inside your garage – just stand it up against the side of the house? They are designed to be outside!
    I keep my boat in a garage over the winter, but just on the launch trolley. I think that would just fit inside your garage, but do your own calcs!

    The road trailer stays outside!

    Chris

  • #18155

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Thanks for your replies.

    Maybe I should have made it clearer but the garage I am talking about is about 5 miles away from my home so it would be great if I could store the whole lot there.

    I have read about the Gunter rig and was considering a Mirror/Heron/Gull  type dinghy at one time but am 6 foot 2 inches and 16 and a half stone. I also have a long and dodgy back so ducking under a low boom would be very difficult for me. The GP 14 I believe would give me the stability and the headroom I require hence my interest in the class but please correct me if you think otherwise.

    Would it be possible to adapt a Combi trailer to make it shorter for storage purposes ?? Just a thought…

  • #18156

    sc-em
    Participant

    Well if you are after a GP14, we are selling our nice wooden example which has both a road (Needs new tyres)and launch trailer. We have not really used it much in the last 12 months and being wooden, it needs more tlc than we can afford, timewise. If you have the time and it will fit the garage, it would be a great boat. It is a well known boat at our club (SSSC). It depends where you are of course!

  • #18157

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    sc-em

    I may well be interested. I am based in Coventry so reasonably central. Could you send me a link with some further details ?

    Also per the original post above is there any chance you could get in measured on the trailer to see if it would indeed fit in my garage ?

     

  • #18159

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    It is very difficult for anyone to advise you at arm’s length about a boat which you can sail with your dodgy back,   but if you are able to sail dinghies at all (rather than being restricted to ballasted boats) then the GP14 would seem to be a strong candidate.    I have personal knowledge of several individuals over the years who have successfully sailed GP14s with dodgy backs,    including,  very close to home,  my late mother at a time when she had become the oldest lady member of our club still sailing,  and despite serious spinal difficulties.

    All boats are compromises,  and the GP14 is no exception.   She is heavy to manhandle ashore,  but in most cases much of the physical effort of that can be done by the car rather than by your own muscles.  The other side of the same coin is that the benefit of that same weight is experienced as soon as you are afloat;    this is one of the reasons why she is such a superb sea boat.   Indeed Jack Holt,  her designer,  answering a question from Dave Bower,  ascribed her seakeeping abilities solely to her very adequate displacement.

    However she is physically demanding to hold upright in strong winds.    So for cruising,  and indeed all non-racing purposes,  I would strongly recommend that you consider fitting good modern reefing kit;   roller reefing (i.e. with a full reefing capability,  not merely furling) for the genoa,  and slab reefing for the main.    This may be even more important in the light of your back problems.    In light winds you will of course be very thankful for having the full sail area available,  but in stronger winds you will be very thankful for the ability to reduce sail area at will.   See my paper on Reefing Systems in the Members’ Library on this site.

    I believe that the GP14 is most certainly worth trying;    but you won’t really know until you try one out.

    Hope this is helpful,

     

    Oliver

     

  • #18160

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Oliver

    Many thanks for your most informative replies. One of the other craft I’ve considered is the wanderer which I believe comes with a means of reefing as standard. I am an ex windsurfer and both of my sons windsurf now. So the idea is for me to have a sail whilst they go out on their boards. Ultimately we all may sail in the dinghy so would like something I could manage solo but with enough scope for us all to have a go in the dinghy if I can get them interested too…..only time will tell.

  • #18161

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    At age 76,  and with also a trailer-sailer yacht in my personal fleet,  I have at last retired from regular active dinghy sailing in favour of the yacht  –  although I still retain a deep interest and involvement in the GP14.

    But right up to two years ago,  when as a very deliberately planned transfer I passed my modern and highly bespoke cruising GP14 over to my godson,  as an advance on his future inheritance,  I was regularly sailing her single-handed at least as often as I had the luxury of a crew.   Probably more often.    It most certainly can be done.

    The Wanderer,  as the smaller sister-ship of the Wayfarer,  has an impressive pedigree,  and I would be the first to admit that she is one of the great cruising dinghy designs.    I happen to be much more familiar with the GP14,  which  –  for everything except camping aboard  –  I regard as being at least as good as the Wanderer,  and one of possibly the only two world-class cruiser-racer dinghies (the other being the Wayfarer).   I don’t include the Wanderer in that particular accolade simply because she seems to be almost unknown as a racing boat;   so effectively she is not a cruiser-racer.   The GP14 and the Wayfarer are both well established in both areas;   the GP14 has the edge for racing,   while the Wayfarer has the edge for cruising  –  but the Wayfarer is a larger and heavier boat,  and I suspect that she is not for you because of your back problems.    She also has the reputation of being very difficult to right after a capsize if single-handed.

    I cannot really comment on the relative merits of the GP14 and the Wanderer because I don’t have the same familiarity with the Wanderer;    however a powerful argument in favour of the GP14 is the much larger number of the boats that are in existence and sailed,  and the much larger coterie of enthusiastic owners who are ready to offer encouragement and friendship and support.    If other things are broadly equal,  as indeed they may well be,   that point is not to be dismissed lightly.

    In terms of load capacity,  the GP14 was specifically designed to be suitable for a young family,  i.e. two parents and two children,  with a jib that was not loo large for “Mum” or for older children to handle,  while also being sufficiently exhilarating for “Dad” to race when not taking the family out.   (Note the gender stereotyping of 1949;   one would never get away with printing that sort of stuff today  …  …)

    Undoubtedly she can be sailed very effectively single-handed,  while also being very happy with up to three adults aboard;    I rather suspect that four full adults under sail would find that they get in each other’s way,  although the boat is amply capable of carrying more than that under oars or outboard motor.   I would expect that the Wanderer might well be similar in this respect,  although I do not have the same first-hand knowledge of the class.

    On the matter of a means of reefing as standard;   the GP14 was also designed with a means of reefing as standard,  the square-gooseneck roller reefing (of the mainsail) which was ubiquitous at the time the boat was designed,  and a jib small enough to not normally require to be reefed.    Reefing technology has moved on since then,  in dinghies just as much as in yachts,  and at the same time the racing fleets have tended to eschew reefing,   because with great skill and athleticism and with the benefit of modern sail controls the most skilled and agile racers can just handle the full rig to windward,   and they (again the most skilled and agile racers) rejoice in the mind-boggling power of the rig off the wind.    But racing and cruising are significantly different,  and racing takes no prisoners in the matter of dodgy backs!

    In cruising events,  where at least two of the participants have been very good racers in disguise and who are no slouches,  I have been known  to lead the fleet when going to windward while I have been reefed and the “fast boys” have not been,  which I think says a lot …

     

    Oliver  (Sometimes also known as “He who reefs …”)

  • #18169

    sc-em
    Participant

    I may be popping down to the sailing club today, although I should think the measurements of a GP14 plus trailer could be found on line. I would guess the 14 foot of the boat plus about another 3 foot for the trailer. Attached is the advert I have at the sailing club at the mo.

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  • #18171

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The problem about relying on measurements found online is that although the measurements of the boat are standard,  trailers are not standard,  and their measurements vary slightly.

     

    Oliver

  • #18172

    sc-em
    Participant

    Agreed. I will be going down a bit later and will take some more photos. It would be nice to keep it in the club, but if there are no takers!

  • #18173

    sc-em
    Participant

    I reckon the whole length is about 15 ft 9 inches so it would be very tight.

  • #18175

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    I will pop over to the garage in the week and take some accurate measurements as I may have been slightly conservative…..

  • #18176

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    I have also noticed that some boats are wooden, some are GRP and some are a combination of the two !! Can anyone advise on the pros and cons of each please bearing in mind I am new to this and realise that the whole business of purchasing/maintaining/sailing a dinghy will be a steep learning curve for me.

  • #18177

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Nigel,  you have opened a right can of worms!

    What follows combines all plastic boats into a single category;   but in reality they started with GRP,  then evolved further to FRP,  and more recently evolved further to epoxy,  and there are important differences between these three methods of plastic construction.

    First,  in terms of performance there is absolutely nothing to choose between the two construction methods.    At the very highest level,  GP14 National and World Championship honours are fairly evenly divided between wooden and plastic boats,  and I think it fair to say that for as long as plastic boats have been around they always have been.

    In terms of personal preference,   wooden boats are things of beauty,  as well as (also) being functional machines.    It is a matter of personal opinion whether the same can be said of plastic boats.

    It is often claimed that wooden boats require more maintenance than plastic boats,  but if we compare boats of similar ages I am not wholly convinced,   although for older boats there is some validity in that.    If properly looked after,   brand new boats in either material will require little cosmetic or structural maintenance for a considerable number of years from new;   and the maintenance of sails and rig is identical for both.    Elderly boats,  in either material,  are likely to require significant hull maintenance;   and elderly neglected boats are likely to require significant repair.

    Perhaps a fair comparison is that a great many elderly boats in either material have significantly deteriorated,  and require significant work to bring them back to top condition.    Which is the easier to repair at that stage depends in part on one’s personal skills and facilities.     It is probably easier to “bodge” a neglected GRP boat than a similarly neglected wooden boat,  but probably a broadly similar expense in terms of both man-hours and materials to do a first class job on either.

    However an elderly wooden boat undoubtedly WILL require routine repainting and revarnishing from time to time to keep her in good condition,   whereas a plastic boat may get away with neglect for rather longer before the consequences become obvious.    New wooden boats,  fully epoxied on all surfaces prior to painting and varnishing,  should not require frequent repainting and revarnishing,  unless damaged in the course of accidents.

    Beyond that,  it is very much a personal preference.   Some of us just love wooden boats.   Others of us see our boats as primarily efficient racing machines,  or to a smaller extent efficient cruising machines,  and do not have the same emotional attachment that some of us have to fine wood.   That distinction is entirely proper,  and which camp you fall into is a very personal choice.

    For what it is worth,  I myself have chosen wooden boats throughout my life until I bought my present trailer-sailer yacht ten years ago.   I happen to be one of those who love wooden boats.   But for this latest boat I felt that (at then age 66) I had had enough of the maintenance and upkeep of vintage wooden yachts,  and I couldn’t afford a new wooden yacht,  so plastic (GRP in this instance) it would have to be.   By and large I am very pleased with her,  although in some ways I do seriously envy a friend who owns a (fairly new,  and very much more expensive) wooden yacht of similar size …   …

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

     

     

  • #18178

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Hi Oliver

    Many thanks for your excellent replies on this forum. You certainly are a man of abounding enthusiasm and knowledge !!

    I too believe that I would appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship inherent in a wooden boat and in the future see myself wanting to learn how to resurrect a relic to its former glory.

    But I suppose at the moment my priority is to find something I am able to self launch within my limitations and actually get onto the water and learn how to sail her properly.

    So bearing that in mind I really need something which would be more or less seaworthy from day one..

  • #18179

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    <p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.5; color: #555555; font-family: ‘Source Sans Pro’, sans-serif;”>Hi Oliver</p>
    <p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.5; color: #555555; font-family: ‘Source Sans Pro’, sans-serif;”>Many thanks for your excellent replies on this forum. You certainly are a man of abounding enthusiasm and knowledge !!</p>
    <p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.5; color: #555555; font-family: ‘Source Sans Pro’, sans-serif;”>I too believe that I would appreciate the beauty and craftsmanship inherent in a wooden boat and in the future see myself wanting to learn how to resurrect a relic to its former glory.</p>
    <p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.5; color: #555555; font-family: ‘Source Sans Pro’, sans-serif;”>But I suppose at the moment my priority is to find something I am able to self launch within my limitations and actually get onto the water and learn how to sail her properly.</p>
    <p style=”box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 1em; line-height: 1.5; color: #555555; font-family: ‘Source Sans Pro’, sans-serif;”>So bearing that in mind I really need something which would be more or less seaworthy from day one..</p>

  • #18180

    Chris
    Participant

    I’m going to throw a curveball in. I have no idea of your budget, but what about a Hartley12? Have a look on the Hartley Boats website.

    I have sailed Wanderers all be they especially old and decrepit examples that had been sailed almost to death by the Birmingham Schools and then by my sailing club. They were exceedingly heavy to handle ashore, you stand little chance of moving them around the dinghy park by yourself depending on the nature of the dodgy back. They are more roomy inside and are more cruiser than racer as already mentioned.

    The GP I believe to be lighter than the Wanderer depending on the GP in question. Some of the Series 1 hulls are very heavy, the weight rule is a minimum and some builders made little effort to acheive it! Ive little experience of the early plastic GPs but I know that the single skin plastic Solos and Merlins were way overweight to get the panel thickness strong enough. Of course a GP has a lot more weight to play with but this needs to be considered.

    If you’re not looking bargain basement I think you stand a better chance. Most Series 2 hulls were down to weight when built of done by a decent builder, though poorly stored examples “soak up” a surprising amount (My resurrected Duffin “lost” 4 kilos between being finished and the start of the world champs last summer!!). Also newer examples have around 10kg lead correctors which if you’ve no intention to race the boat ever can be removed – 10 minutes will put it back when you sell the boat.

    Weight of course is not everything you should consider but it’s important to know that you’ll get what you think you’ll get. My previous club bought 3 Laser 2000s as they were supposed to be lighter than the existing wayfarers – they weren’t, Laser were very creative with the hull weight on their marketing!

    The GP will do what you want, but please have a look at the Hartley website as I think the 12 will tick more boxes for you. I hate the plastic pop outs but in your case I think its up your street. I think the mast *might* be two piece too, though it wouldn’t need to be garaged.

  • #18181

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Chris

    Many thanks for your input. To be honest I’m open to all suggestions but a lighter,  stable boat with a high boom do see to tick the boxes for me. I’ve also looked on the websites at Gulls and Herons but have no experience so until I start seeing some of these boats in the flesh so to speak it’s difficult to pass judgement. Speed is unimportant as I have no desire to race as I know that would increase my risk of damaging my back. Oliver’s point of having  reefable sails makes very good sense as it’s not like I have a quiver of sails at my disposal like I did in my windsurfing days…..

  • #18182

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    If you are considering the Heron,  or for that matter the Mirror 10,  also consider where you intend to sail;  in particular consider strength of tidal streams.

    Both of them are fine little boats,  but with the emphasis on little.    Easier to manhandle ashore,   remarkably good sea boats for their size,  eminently sailable single-handed and very capable when two-up.   And with the twin benefits for yourself of gunter rig,  and of fitting very easily into your garage.

    But they would both be seriously small and cramped for sailing with more than two adults aboard;   almost a non-starter.

    And both would be seriously limited in regions of fast tides.    Alright,  when my club started (in 1959) we did have racing fleets of both boats,  and indeed I sailed a Heron for a few years,   but if the wind dropped they had very limited ability to beat the tide.

    It comes back to what I said earlier;   all boats are compromises.   I think the GP14 would probably be an excellent compromise for you,  but you would have to actually try one out to be certain.

    Incidentally all three boats are from the pen of the same designer,   Jack Holt.

    One further thought;   this proposed purchase doesn’t necessarily need to be for life.   You might usefully consider buying a boat to try out initially,  while keeping an open mind whether to keep her long term or aim to change the following year.   That can be a sensible strategy,  provided you resist the temptation to spend the earth on her before you have determined how long you are keeping her,  and if you do decide to change the following year (or the year after that) that would be on the basis of a more fully informed choice and of first-hand experience.

     

    Oliver

     

  • #18183

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    That sounds like a plan to me. Living in the West Midlands means that most, if not all, of my sailing will be in fresh water. Thinking I could learn the ropes in something I could easily manhandle myself. The odd time I could have one of my sons sail with me. The odd time maybe they would both take the boat out whilst I stayed ashore. As and when I retire to the coast then I could reconsider something else.

    So that brings me to another question. Which craft would have a high enough boom and be stable enough to suit my large frame and stiff back but also be easy to manhandle ashore?

    I was down the sailing club watching yesterday and plenty of Mirrors and Solos on the water but thought there was no way I could hope to duck under the boom….

  • #18184

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I still think it would be worth trying out a GP14,   but try asking for a sail in one.    I don’t know which club you belong to,  but at least some of the West Midlands clubs are strong GP14 clubs.

    The only real way to assess the boat is to try one out.

     

    Oliver

  • #18229

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Sorry guys. I need your help again. I am enquiring about a certain boat for sale. It has a GRP hull and a wooden deck.

    I asked about the hull number and have been informed it was built by Bourne & Co with a hull number of 686454.

    Can anyone throw any light on this please ??

    Thanks in advance

  • #18230

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    In the early days of the GRP boats Bourne Plastics were the primary moulder,  and the hulls were then fitted out by a variety of firms,  including Bourne Plastics.    A small number of composite boats were produced,  with GRP hull and varnished plywood decks,  which were intended as a compromise for those who enjoyed the beauty of wood but wanted the perceived easier maintenance of GRP.

    There is also at least one boat,  Boomer II,  which was built as a straight GRP boat,  and later re-decked as a composite,  in a rather splendid conversion by her then owner,  Henry Henderson.   He also did some work on the cockpit floor,  and I vaguely think he installed under-floor buoyancy.    Very much a one-off.

    The number you have quoted is definitely not the hull number;   Bourne went bankrupt in the late seventies,  and even today,  around 40 years later,  hull numbers have still only reached 14,000-and-something;  certainly nowhere near 68,000.    Almost certainly that number will be Bourne’s moulding number;   however that seems to disprove something which I had long understood to be the case –  albeit that I have never seen it documented in print  –  that the moulding number included a year code and also the hull number.

    I did therefore wonder whether your number indicated the year 1968 and a hull number 6454;    however the latter seems to be seriously inconsistent with other records,  although the year would appear to be possible.

    According to “the GP14 Bible” (The Basic Boating Book and also 50 Years on the Water,  both now available on this site) the GRP boats were first produced in 1967,  commencing with sail no. 7002.

    However around 15 years ago there was a table on the then Forum (on Bravenet,  for those who remember it),  cataloguing dates at which sail numbers were issued,  and I copied that data into my ongoing spreadsheet.   Unfortunately there is a possible small discrepancy between those two sources,  because my records show that sail numbers 7001-8000 were issued in 1966-68;  although they also show that numbers 6001-7000 were issued in 1963-66.    The apparent discrepancy is resolved if no. 7001 was the last number issued in 1966,  fairly late in the year,  and 7002 (the first GRP boat) was the first number issued in 1967;    but if that is not the case then there is a discrepancy between the two records.

    Since,  according to my records,  hull numbers 6001-700 were issued in 1963-66 (as stated above),  this also suggests that 6454 would have probably been issued late 1964,  and both sets of records agree that is about 2-3 years before the first GRP boats were produced.

    Beyond that it is detective work,  unless anyone has authoritative knowledge of how one can deduce the hull number from the moulding number   –   if indeed that is possible at all.

     

    Oliver

     

     

  • #18231

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    I will ask where they got the information from.  I’m presuming it’s off some sort of plate but would be hull number be stored elsewhere? Or maybe they’ve transcribed it incorrectly…..

  • #18232

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The hull number should have once been affixed to the hull,  on some kind of plate,  although for GRP boats I am not sure of the details.

    But after this distance of time it may well have become detached.    You are doing quite well to find any surviving identification number!

     

    Oliver

  • #18234

    Chris Hearn
    Keymaster

    @Nigel,

    I am advised by Graham Knox, another long-standing member of the Association and Committee, who is certain of the following “moulded by Bourne Plastics with a number beginning with 68. This is on a metal plate, port side under the bow deck. This records that the boat was moulded in 1968 and the allotted sail number is the following four digits. This comes from my past as Secretary! I am certain that i am correct!”

    So your plate number of 686454. gives a hull number of 6454!

     

  • #18235

    Arthur
    Participant

    The number was not moulded into the glassfibre? I would have thought it would have been like the wooden boats, cut into the hog or the equivilant

  • #18236

    Nigel Miles
    Participant

    Chris

    Very interesting that and it makes sense and ties in with Oliver’s theory but not with his records. I’m sure that must be right.

    Have been in touch with the seller and he informs me that the boat was built in 1976 but I think that’s very unlikely given the above.

    So I’ll go along with 1968 !!

  • #18237

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    That information from Graham ties in with what I had heard previously,  which I had possibly indeed heard from Graham himself,  and I concur with the number being on a plate bonded to the inside of the hull,  high up,  port side,  under the foredeck.   But in that case the 6454 predates the 7002 quoted in “the GP14 Bible” as being the sail number of the first GRP boat.

    Wearing a different sailing hat,  as the owner of a Privateer 20 (also moulded by Bourne Plastics) the received wisdom within the Shipmate Owners Association is that the first two digits are the year,  but that the remaining digits are the sequential number of the moulding,  which until this discussion we had thought was within that year,  but perhaps across all mouldings (rather than specific to a particular design or class);   however with these boats (built during the seventies) there were only three digits following the year code.    Bournes produced a considerable number of different classes of boat,  including several other dinghies,  the Shipmates,  and at least two motor cruisers,  and at various times they also produced car bodies (including the first 250-300 bodies for the Lotus Elan 1500,  before production was moved in-house two years later).

    Combining Graham’s information together with that from my own researches on the Privateers and the information from the Shipmate Owners’ Association it now seems more likely that the digits following the year code may have been sequential numbers to designate the moulding number for that particular moulding design (rather than across all mouldings),  but it also now seems that this was more probably irrespective of year.    The moulding number of my yacht,  for example,  is 74 055,  and the latest moulding number for a Privateer 20 which we have on record is 76 112;   it is fairly unlikely that as many as 112 Privateers were produced in 1976,  but remotely possible that that number may have been produced in total.

    However we still have two discrepancies unresolved.   The first is that hull number 6454 appears to predate the first GRP GP14,  stated by Roy Nettleship to be 7002.    The second is that my Privateer 20,  with a moulding number of 74 055,  appears from other evidence to be very possibly the first one produced.   These discrepancies remain a puzzle,  but it would be a dull world if everything fell into place at once!

    For anyone interested,  an online article about the history of Bourne Plastics appears here;   http://www.ournottinghamshire.org.uk/page/bourne_plastics_of_netherfield_langar

     

    Oliver

  • #18238

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    A look at our digitised records for boats numbered 6454 and 7002 might illuminate the discrepancy referenced above.

    I will ask for a sight of them.

     

    Oliver

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