Advice

GP14 Sailing Forums Forum Advice

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Oliver Shaw 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #16425

    rich1066
    Participant

    Hi people I’m just after some solid advice.ive an old gp14 that’s I’m about to chop up but I kinda like a challenge..I’ve discovered some rot at the mast step area and hog…I went to town on it to see how far it goes..the frames are solid and deck is removed it needs new transom, my question is can this hog damage be filled or is it a replacement job…also if it can I was thinking remove bottom ply hull boards…or maybe all hull boards and replace..don’t ask me why I want to..the intelligent part of my brain says scrap it and by one for 2k…im not try to save money just think a rebuilt one would be satifisfying.. would be grateful for some harsh truth and people’s good and bad experiences thanks in advance.

  • #16426

    rich1066
    Participant

    Hog

  • #16427

    rich1066
    Participant

    hog

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  • #16429

    rich1066
    Participant

    hog

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  • #16433

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    If you are looking for a challenge you have certainly got one here!

    I have never tackled a job as big as this,  but I do have some limited first-hand experience of major repairs and also of boat building,  and I have also seen some of the work of other people,  both in the flesh and in photos,  so I think I can perhaps make a useful contribution to your decision.   This post indicates my initial thinking on how I would approach such a job if I were to have a go at it.

    A photo,  or photos,  of the hog from inside the boat might also be helpful,  but on the basis of what can be seen from these photos alone it seems that you are absolutely right on two points:   it would be far easier (and possibly no more expensive) to scrap this hull and buy a decent replacement,  and it would be a satisfying major project  –  very major  –  to repair this one.    But don’t underestimate the work involved.

    If there is (or is not) some particular feature about the history or provenance or the age of this boat,  that might be a factor in your decision.

    On the plus side,  occasional other owners have completed stunning restorations of boats which were in fairly parlous condition.  And,  in principle,  anything built of wood is intrinsically repairable.

    If you do attempt to repair this hull,  I suspect that you will need to cut out and replace the rotten section of the hog,  and likewise the rotten part in the centreboard case.   The latter will be the easier task of the two.

    One concern about removing and replacing part of the hog is retaining the original shape of the boat,  in particular the shape of the keel line.   Of course,  it can be argued that the rotten wood is not doing anything much at resent to preserve the shape,  and if the frames and the side panels are sound this will go a long way to preserve the rigidity;  but belt and braces would seem to be a good principle to work to here.    You say that the decks have already been removed,  so it would seem to be worth adopting and adapting the method that Bell Woodworking originally recommended for building the boat;   before you cut out any more wood,  turn her upside down,  support the boat rigidly at a comfortable working height,  and then secure temporary building struts extending each of the frames down to the workshop floor,  and screw or bolt these struts to the floor.   That will help to preserve the rigidity of the hull when you cut out part of the hog.  (See attachment,  taken from Bell Woodworking’s book “Home Boat Building Made Easy”.)

    Then,  and not before that step,  I think you will have to remove the centreboard case before you repair the hog.    However a probable complication may be that frame 3 is in  two parts,  interrupted by the centreboard case;  I regret that my memory is a little hazy in this respect,  but I am reasonably confident that frame 3 is in line with the thwart,  in which case my memory would seem to be correct.   If that is indeed the case,  I think you will need to “complete” the missing section with a temporary (and sacrificial) dummy timber screwed into the original frame.   It will be important to arrange that the height of this dummy timber (off the floor) is correct,  so you will need to measure this height while the centreboard case is still in place,  i.e. before you extract it.

    You will then have to decide how best to joint the new wood (of the hog) into the remaining old wood,  given the imperative need to preserve a smooth and correct line.   The only definite and (reasonably) correct reference points are provided by the frames,  which you will have secured in place.   My current thinking is to put backing pads on both sides of each frame where possible,  bonded to the frames with epoxy,  (although I think that with frame 2 the pad on the after side will have to be a temporary one,  merely screwed in place,  to be removed once the repaired hog is complete and you are ready to re-fit the centreboard case).   That will give you a reasonably broad base at each frame.

    Now make your joints in the hog as halved and laminated staggered butt joints,  exactly at the centreline of frames,  and they are probably going to be at frames 1 and 3  –  in the latter case this will be the temporary dummy frame referred to above.     First make plain butt joints,  bonded to the frames with epoxy.   Once this is fully cured,  remove any screws used,  and cut away half the thickness of the hog for some distance either side of the butt joint,  then laminate in new timber to bridge this butt joint.    Even better would be to scarf in the new timber,  but that requires very accurate cutting of two complementary scarf joints,  and I feel that with all the other surrounding structure either in sound condition or repaired as necessary and all the butt joints staggered the job will be adequately strong even with butt joints.You will effectively have the after butt joint in the hog not only staggered in a two-part lamination,  but also stiffened by the centreboard case on the inside and by the keel on the outside (with the butt joints in the keel likewise staggered to be well away from those in the hog.   Similarly the forward butt joint can be stiffened by doing the approved the mast step conversion,  and I would strongly recommend that you do this as part of the repair.

    Once the after hog joint is completed the temporary timbers added to “complete” frame 3 can be removed.   If you have bonded the hog to these timbers you will need to use saw and chisel to remove if from the repaired hog.

    As I said at outset,  it is a massive,  and challenging job;   but it is one which should be eminently possible,  and which if you enjoy a woodworking challenge should be immensely rewarding.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Oliver Shaw.
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  • #16440

    rich1066
    Participant

    hi Oliver

    thanks for your reply much appreciated…im going to strip off some hull boards and see what I can do. I’ve got nothing to lose really. ill start with stripping hull or at least bottom boards and investigate the hog repair issue and go from there..

  • #16442

    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    By way of encouragement,  partial hog replacement has been done before.   I see that in the Classifieds there is currently a rebuilt boat,  in “as new” condition if I remember correctly,  on which the work done includes replacement of 8 feet of the hog.

     

    Oliver

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